How to make Al a force for good in climate - Amen Ra Mashariki and Manoush Zomorodi
You're listening to ted talks daily where we bring you new ideas to spark your curiosity every day. I'm your host, elise Hugh. I'm still amazed by the ridiculously fast pace at which technology and AI is growing, but what are some ways that AI might be used for climate and nature solutions? Today manuh zomarodi, who hosts the ted radio hour, sits down with AI change maker amen ra mashariki to discuss what he thinks truly game changing climate ideas might look like, and how AI is playing an increasingly large role in that space.
（您正在收听TED Talks Daily，我们每天为您带来激发好奇的新想法。我是主持人Elise Hugh。我仍然对技术和AI令人咋舌的高速发展感到惊讶，但AI有哪些方式可以用于气候和自然解决方案呢？今天，主持TED Radio Hour的Manoush Zomorodi将与AI变革者Amen Ra Mashariki坐下交谈，探讨他认为真正能改变游戏规则的气候理念可能是什么样子，以及AI如何在这一领域扮演越来越重要的角色。）
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Okay, so tell us the story of how you got to be working with Bezos your sort of trajectory to being here.
（好的，那么请告诉我们，你是如何开始为贝索斯工作的，你的职业轨迹是怎样的。）
Yeah, it's, it's really interesting that you asked that question because sort of my pathway to the Bezos earth fund is almost Polar opposite to how we think about our pathway to adopting and using AI to accelerate climate and nature solutions. And I'll explain why really, really in some quick points. I undergrad, master's, doctorate, computer science, computer scientists, research labs, did the whole thing. I was one of those computer scientists that believed in computer science, you know, algorithm optimization.
（是的，你问这个问题真的很有趣，因为我去往贝索斯地球基金的道路，与我们思考如何采用和使用AI来加速气候和自然解决方案的道路几乎是完全相反的。我会用几个要点很快解释一下为什么。我完成了本科、硕士、博士，都是计算机科学，当过计算机科学家，在实验室做研究，经历了整个过程。我是那种信仰计算机科学的计算机科学家，你知道的，专注于算法优化。）
Through a couple of personal things that took place, I realized that that was only a mechanism by which I could do other things, which is have an impact. So then I began to chase problems. You mentioned here I was the chief analytics officer for the city of new York. How do we solve problems here? And then, you know, coming to the Bezos sur fund, how do we use AI computer science to solve climate and nature problems and so. I was AI in search of a problem at the Bezos earth fund. We think about starting with the problem first and understanding that problem and then looking for ways to use modern AI in order to scale solutions in that space.
（通过发生的几件个人事情，我意识到那（计算机科学）只是我用来做其他事情、产生影响的一种机制。于是我开始追逐问题。你提到我曾是纽约市的首席分析官。我们如何在这里解决问题？然后，你知道，来到贝索斯地球基金，我们如何利用AI和计算机科学来解决气候和自然问题？所以在贝索斯地球基金，我的路径是从AI出发寻找问题。而我们的理念是先从问题本身出发，理解问题，然后寻找利用现代AI来扩大该领域解决方案的方法。）
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Okay, so let's go deeper into that. How are you looking at different projects that are out there? What are sort of the big ideas that you're using to sort of lead you to find what you want to fund?
（好的，让我们更深入地探讨一下。你如何看待现有的不同项目？你们用来引导自己找到想要资助项目的那些核心理念是什么？）
Yeah, so we internally we have a mental model that we use to really get there. We think about this difference between inventions and discoveries, right? And the way you want to think about that is a telescope is an invention. Looking through the telescope to notice that Jupiter has moons is the discovery right? And so for us when we look at it, it's how do we identify big, big innovations, grand innovations that have an impact such that. You can have discoveries that then have an impact in climate and nature and so we look for projects and efforts that sort of go across that that mental model.
（是的，我们内部有一个心智模型来引导我们达到目标。我们思考发明和发现之间的区别，对吧？你可以这样理解：望远镜是一项发明。通过望远镜观察，注意到木星有卫星，那就是发现，对吧？所以对我们来说，关键在于如何识别那些能产生影响的重大创新、宏伟创新，以至于你能有随之在气候和自然领域产生影响的发现。因此，我们寻找那些大致符合这个心智模型的项目和努力。）
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Okay, so before we get into the discovery part, let's talk about the tool. Where are we when it comes to AI? I mean I know there are some people might think what do you mean we're at chati p t five but like from your perspective much different um where do you think we are?
（好的，在我们深入发现部分之前，先谈谈工具。在AI方面，我们处于什么阶段？我知道有些人可能会想“你说我们处于ChatGPT-5阶段是什么意思？”，但从你的角度来看可能很不同，嗯，你认为我们处于什么阶段？）
Yeah, so I could, I could I could spend hours talking about you know digital twins, earth observation models, edge AI and all of those things. But for for one of the things that have resonated with me is this concept called move37 right. So move37 was this move that AlphaGo when playing against a go champion early on in the game in his37 thmove did a move that was counterintuitive to all experts right it? No sense to any go expert, but it was the move that ultimately won the game. And so where AI is, is these two places right now, it's at a place where it answers questions based on what it knows, right? It answers. It takes an average of reality and then gives you answers.
（是的，我可以花好几个小时谈论数字孪生、地球观测模型、边缘AI等等。但其中一个引起我共鸣的概念叫做“Move 37”（第37步），对吧？Move 37是指AlphaGo在与围棋冠军对弈的早期，在其第37步走出了一步对所有专家来说都违反直觉的棋，对吧？任何围棋专家都无法理解，但正是这一步最终赢得了比赛。所以，AI目前处于这两个地方：一个是基于已知信息回答问题的地方，对吧？它回答。它取现实的评均值，然后给你答案。）
Move37 was this view into how AI can be creative and actually come up with a move that no one has ever thought of and it was counterintuitive to use. And so we really want to get to a place where in climate and nature, AI is actually offering solutions, creative solutions that even the world's greatest experts find counterintuitive but are actually really powerful.
（Move 37让我们看到了AI如何能够具有创造性，真正提出一个没人想到过的招式，而且这个招式是反直觉的。因此，我们非常希望达到这样一个境界：在气候和自然领域，AI能够真正提供解决方案，创造性的解决方案，即使是世界上最伟大的专家也认为违反直觉，但实际上却非常强大的方案。）
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Do you have an example of something that's maybe happening already that demonstrates that? Well, one of the projects that that really goes across this mental model that I talked about. Is meta really came up with this AI eh innovation invention called dino v three, which is a computer vision model, very powerful computer vision model, and then they matched it with satellite data.
（你有已经在发生的例子来证明这一点吗？嗯，有一个项目真正贯穿了我刚才提到的这个心智模型。Meta公司确实提出了一个名为DinoV3的AI创新发明，这是一个计算机视觉模型，非常强大的计算机视觉模型，然后他们将其与卫星数据相匹配。）
And it's really powerful brand innovation, but what they did was partner with wri in its restoration efforts such that you could actually track the growth of trees to an80% accuracy of field surveys at three percent of the cost, right? And so now you can actually unlock a performance based financing with this technology. So it, it followed that mental model of grand innovation and invention and ultimately a discovery that leads to that leads to an impact the move37.
（这确实是一个强大的品牌创新，但他们所做的是与世界资源研究所在其恢复工作中合作，使得你能够以3%的成本，达到与实地调查80%的准确度来追踪树木的生长，对吧？所以现在你实际上可以利用这项技术解锁基于绩效的融资。因此，它遵循了那个宏伟创新和发明的心智模型，并最终导向了一个发现，而这个发现又导向了影响力——就像Move 37一样。）
The whole thing about that is we haven't gotten there yet, and that's where we should be going, which is there are restoration solutions that people are using. And if you ask AI, tell me some of the best ways to do restoration in this particular area. What it's going to do is identify an average or interpolation of the existing good solutions. What we want is AI to come up with something that no one in the room can come up with when it comes to restoration. And that's, that's the trajectory.
（关键在于我们还没有达到那个境界，而那是我们应该去往的方向。目前人们正在使用各种恢复解决方案。如果你问AI：“告诉我，在这个特定区域进行恢复的一些最佳方法。”它要做的是识别出现有良好解决方案的评均值或插值。而我们希望的是，在恢复方面，AI能提出房间里没人能想出来的东西。这就是发展方向。）
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What's the timeline? Look for that. How will we know when we have sort of hit that tipping point? One, there has to be trust and by the experts and the experts are using it. But then also there has to be a mechanism by which. Everyday people who are living their lives who are living in these regions that, that we're concerned about, who are doing the work on the ground, can trust and use these tools as well. There is anyone who gives you an exact number, doesn't know the number, how long it's going to take, but that's where we have to get to is that level of trust and that level of use across a number of types of people.
（时间表是怎样的？我们如何知道我们已经达到了那个临界点？第一，必须建立信任，并且是专家们的信任，专家们要使用它。但同时也必须有一个机制，让那些生活在这些我们关心的区域、实地从事工作的普通人也能信任和使用这些工具。任何给你确切数字的人，其实都不知道这个数字，不知道要花多长时间。但我们必须达到的目标，就是那种程度的信任，以及跨越多种人群的使用程度。）
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I want to be sure to ask you because there are many people who say that the same Tech giants who are driving AI are also responsible for a lot of the environmental harms and that their climate initiatives essentially amount to greenwashing how do you respond to that?
（我一定要问你这个问题，因为很多人说，推动AI的科技巨头同时也对许多环境破坏负有责任，而且他们的气候倡议本质上就是“洗绿”。你对此作何回应？）
You know, at the Bezos art fund, we believe that on balance, AI is going to be a tool and a force for good and a tool and a force for saving the planet. On balance we have to acknowledge. Knowledge that AI does contribute to degradation and challenges when it comes to the environment.
（你知道，在贝索斯地球基金，我们相信，总的来说，AI将成为一种向善的工具和力量，一种拯救地球的工具和力量。总的来说，我们必须承认，AI确实对环境的退化和挑战有贡献。）
There are many, many solutions that a lot of these companies, a lot of NGOs, a lot of academic institutions and a lot of governments are applying in this space. And we will continue as the basesos reserve fund to support those type of efforts such that we are deliberate in meeting that broad statement that AI on balance will have a positive impact on the planet.
（有很多公司、非政府组织、学术机构和政府正在这一领域应用许多、许多的解决方案。作为贝索斯地球基金，我们将继续支持这类努力，以便我们有意识地实现“AI总体上将对地球产生积极影响”这一广泛声明。）
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I mean, it makes me nervous because it's like, let's hope it works a little bit. What are some of the sort of milestones that we need to be looking for as we go forward?
（我的意思是，这让我感到紧张，因为这有点像“让我们希望它能有点用”。在我们前进的过程中，我们需要关注哪些里程碑？）
So I was. I was listening to a panel the other day. And someone said something along the lines of every time you do a query on Chad gpt, it's like throwing away a bottle of water on the ground.
（是这样的。前几天我听了一个小组讨论。有人说，每次你在ChatGPT上进行一次查询，就像把一瓶水扔在地上一样。）
As soon as they made that statement, they said, you know, I don't know if that's true, but, but, but, but it sounds, you know, like it might be true.
（他们一说完这个陈述，就说，你知道，我不知道这是不是真的，但，但，但，但这听起来，你知道，可能像是真的。）
One of the things that we need to begin to do is to have precise accuracy and understanding of exactly the impact that AI is having on our environment and a shared understanding across the board such that we can make statements that we all agree on such that we can identify the solutions. So the first milestone, which will include a level of transparency, a lot of information and data such that we can really get to a place of agreeing on exactly what those challenges are.
（我们需要开始做的一件事是，要精确、准确地理解AI对我们的环境究竟产生了什么影响，并在全体范围内达成共识，这样我们才能做出我们都同意的声明，从而识别出解决方案。所以第一个里程碑，将包括一定程度的透明度、大量的信息和数据，以便我们真正能就这些挑战究竟是什么达成一致。）
The next milestone is because as we speak, companies. Are shifting how they build technology to support AI. For instance, cooling is no longer just cooling at the data center level has shifted to now. There are mechanisms where you can cool at the chip level such that the the burden on water is not so, not so great, right? So these are the types of milestones that would have to be in place.
（下一个里程碑是……因为就在我们说话的时候，公司们正在改变他们构建支持AI的技术的方式。例如，冷却不再仅仅是在数据中心层面，现在已经转变了。有一些机制可以在芯片层面进行冷却，这样对水的负担就不会那么大了，对吧？所以这些就是需要到位的里程碑类型。）
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So I guess I want to end by saying, you know, it's an exciting time, it's a scary time. What is getting you sort of what makes you most hopeful? What are you most exc*ted about when you get up every day to go figure out how we're going to find solutions?
（所以我想最后说，你知道，这是一个激动人心的时代，也是一个令人恐惧的时代。是什么让你感到最有希望？你每天起床去研究我们将如何找到解决方案时，最让你*奋的是什么？）
So let me, let me so say this, we believe that we are in a space where the. Um. Consequential decade meets the decisive decade, right? And so if you've heard that term before the consequential decade, it's what AI practitioners use to talk about. This is the time in which we have to think about ethics policy, regulation, technology, innovation, invention. Because these are the decisions that are going to decide. These are the things that are going to decide where what impact AI has on the global community.
（那么让我，让我这么说，我们相信我们正处在一个……嗯……“后果十年”与“决定十年”交汇的空间，对吧？所以，如果你以前听说过“后果十年”这个术语，这是AI从业者用来谈论的：这是我们不得不思考伦理政策、监管、技术、创新、发明的时期。因为这些是将要做出决定的决策。这些是将决定AI对全球社会产生何种影响的事情。）
And we all know here what the decisive decade of referenceerences and so this is a place where the consequential decade meets the decisive decade. And so it really has to be an all hands on deck and a commitment from communities of in the AI space and communities and the climate and nature space and the Bezos earth of fund. We see ourselves as sitting right in the middle and being a leader in that space.
（而我们都知道这里所说的“决定十年”指的是什么，所以这是一个“后果十年”与“决定十年”交汇的地方。因此，这确实需要各方齐心协力，需要来自AI领域社区、气候和自然领域社区以及贝索斯地球基金的承诺。我们将自己视为正好坐在中间，并成为这一领域的领导者。）
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Okay, we have to leave. But there, amen ra maharishi. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.
（好的，我们必须结束了。那么，Amen Ra Mashariki，非常感谢你。非常感谢。）
That was amen ra masashariki in conversation with manu zarodi at a ted countdown event in new York in partnership with the Bezos earth fund in2025.
（以上是Amen Ra Mashariki与Manoush Zomorodi在2025年于纽约举行的TED Countdown活动上的对话，该活动与贝索斯地球基金合作举办。）
