What 2025 Taught Us-And Where 2026 Is Taking Us

Hey, I'm elise. Hugh and I host ted talks daily the podcast giving you one inspiring idea from ted each day. It's been an unusual year and I got to look back on it. With the help of some of my fellow ted podcast hosts minusoarodi from the ted radio hour, Sheryl dorsey from ted Tech and medupe ainola from ted business. We had a really lively conversation for a special end of year episode about what surprised, ex*ited and challenged us most in2025 touching on everything from the dangers of Boomers being addicted to social media to how we think AI will affect humanity in the future. You can listen to our insights on sunday's episode of ted talks daily. I hope you enjoy our conversation as much as we did.

大家好，我是Elise Hu。我主持TED每日谈播客，每天为您带来一个来自TED的启发灵感。这是不寻常的一年，我有机会回顾它。在我的TED播客同事们——TED Radio Hour的Manoush Zomorodi、TED Tech的Sheryl Dorsey和TED Business的Modupe Akinola的帮助下，我们为特别的年终节目进行了一场非常生动的对话，讨论了2025年最让我们惊讶、兴奋和挑战我们的事情，涵盖了从婴儿潮一代沉迷社交媒体的危险，到我们认为AI将如何影响人类未来的方方面面。您可以在周日的TED每日谈节目中收听我们的见解。希望您和我们一样喜欢这次对话。

You're listening to ted talks daily where we bring you new ideas to spark your curiosity every day. I'm your host, elise Hugh. What do foot massage parties, otters, and AI robot tutors have in common? It all sounds a bit ridiculous, but I promise there's a through line in this first of its kind episode of ted talks daily. I am ex*ited to share with you a special conversation I got to host with hosts of some of ted's other podcasts in the collective manuoarodi of ted radio hour, medupe ainola of ted business and Sheryl dorsey of ted Tech. So the four of us got to sit down together to reflect on the year that was. And look ahead to2026 from pushing back against AI advances to sharing the ted talks that inspired us, we discuss what we thought were some of the biggest news stories and ideas of the year, and the lesser known insights that we wished got more attention. I'm so ex*ited. To share this one with you, hope you enjoy.

您正在收听TED每日谈，我们每天为您带来激发好奇心的新想法。我是主持人Elise Hu。足部按摩派对、水獭和AI机器人导师有什么共同点？这听起来都有点荒谬，但我保证，在这期TED每日谈史无前例的节目中，有一条贯穿的主线。我很高兴能与您分享我主持的一场特殊对话，嘉宾是TED其他播客的主持人：TED Radio Hour的Manoush Zomorodi、TED Business的Modupe Akinola和TED Tech的Sheryl Dorsey。我们四人坐在一起，回顾过去的一年。并展望2026年，从对AI进步提出质疑，到分享激励我们的TED演讲，我们讨论了我们认为今年一些最大的新闻事件和想法，以及我们希望得到更多关注的鲜为人知的见解。我非常兴奋。能与您分享这次对话，希望您喜欢。

Hey everyone, welcome. I'm elise Hugh. I'm a journalist, author, and the host of ted talks daily, and I'm here with the most incredible group of people and friends. I am with the hosts of some of ted's flagship podcasts. If each of you could say who you are and talk a little bit about your show, medupe.

大家好，欢迎。我是Elise Hu。我是一名记者、作家，也是TED每日谈的主持人，今天我和一群最了不起的人和朋友在一起。他们是TED一些旗舰播客的主持人。请各位自我介绍一下，并简单谈谈你们的节目，Modupe先开始。

I am medua andla. I am the host of the ted business podcast where we talk about exciting ideas in business and share a ted talk with you chl.

我是Modupe Akinola。我是TED Business播客的主持人，我们在节目中讨论激动人心的商业理念，并与您分享一场TED演讲。

I'm cheryl dorsey. I am a journalist and author and the host of the ted Tech podcast. We talk about everything that, you know, sits at the intersection of both technology and humanity, while also introducing talks that you may or may not have heard from the ted stage.

我是Sheryl Dorsey。我是一名记者、作家，也是TED Tech播客的主持人。我们讨论一切处于科技与人性交叉点的话题，同时也会介绍一些您可能在TED舞台上听过或没听过的演讲。

EM inish I'm a new sham merodei I host NPR's ted radio hour and every week we take a number of talks and go behind the scenes to speak to people about the research that they're doing, how they've done the work that they've done, and what they're thinking about in the future and hopefully make you think more expansively about the world. Hello? Everyone.

我是Manoush Zomorodi。我主持NPR的TED Radio Hour节目，每周我们会选取几场演讲，深入幕后与演讲者交谈，了解他们正在做的研究、他们如何完成工作以及他们对未来的思考，希望能让您更广阔地思考这个世界。大家好？

Yeah, it's so nice to be with you all. I know. Finally. I'm so ex*ited to get to moderate this conversation because this is the first time we're all coming together like this and we're getting together towards the end of2025 what a year it's been. And so we're reflecting on the year that was and to offer some thoughts and projections on what might be coming up. But before we get there, I thought we'd do a little icebreaker, okay, if you had1000 dollars to spend on a party. What would you do?

是的，和你们在一起真是太好了。终于聚在一起了。我非常兴奋能主持这次对话，因为这是我们第一次以这样的方式聚在一起，而且是在2025年接近尾声的时候，这是多么不平凡的一年啊。因此我们要反思过去的一年，并对未来可能发生的事情提供一些想法和预测。但在开始之前，我们先来个小破冰游戏，好吗？如果你有1000美元可以用来办一场派对。你会怎么做？

I'll go first. It's man. I think foot massages are really underrated. But part of the thing is, if you ask someone you love to give you a foot massage, you like feel bad. There's guilt. So pay pay for foot massages and delicious snacks and just a total relaxation party. That's what I'm doing after2025. Atleast I need it, yeah.

我先来吧。我是Manoush。我觉得足部按摩真的被低估了。但问题是，如果你请你爱的人给你做足底按摩，你会觉得有点不好意思。会有愧疚感。所以，花钱请人来按摩，再准备美味小吃，办一个彻头彻尾的放松派对。这就是我2025年后要做的。至少我需要这个，没错。

Yeah, I love that it's it's self care, but everyone else care too, just have everyone else. And we don't have to talk as the introvert low. We don't have to talk. I love it.

是的，我喜欢这个主意，这是自我关爱，但也关爱了他人，让每个人都参与进来。作为内向者，我们可以不说话。我们不必交谈。我太喜欢了。

That's so good. That's so good. OK, so for the last couple of years I focused my birthday parties, like not on big grand dinners and fancy outfits. It's been about play and like getting thirty and four year old people like to play. And so if I had a thousand dollars to spend on a party, I would do another beat the bomb party. What? And so you so you first of all, you have to get dressed up in these hazmat suits and you split up into teams of two.

这主意太好了。太好了。好的，过去几年我办生日派对的重点，不是盛大晚餐和华丽着装。而是关于玩耍，让三十岁和四十岁的人也喜欢玩。所以，如果我有一千美元办派对，我会再办一次“拆弹”派对。什么？首先，你必须穿上这些防护服，然后分成两人一组的小队。

And you go into these dark rooms where you have to solve a puzzle in a certain amount of time, and you got to work together to solve the puzzle. They're very tricky, and you get a certain allotment of time for each room. If you solve the puzzle early, then you go into the next room, you come. To get to come to my foot massage party.

然后你们进入这些黑暗的房间，必须在规定时间内解开谜题，必须合作解决谜题。它们非常棘手，每个房间都有分配好的时间。如果你提前解开了谜题，就可以进入下一个房间，你就可以。来参加我的足部按摩派对了。

Because, because, yes, because you've been working your you've been working your brain in your body, you got to go in and under lasers like mission impossible. And then at the end when you have finished all the puzzles, you go into the last room which is getting a robot through a maze and you have to work together. Now you have all your time that you allocate it throughout your puzzle solving. And that is the only that is the amount of time that you have to solve this last puzzle. If you do not solve it before the robot gets to its destination, then the bomb goes off and you are splattered with spray paint. This the coolest thing on the planet. I had never heard of this.

因为，因为，是的，因为你一直在动脑，一直在活动身体，你得进去，在激光下像不可能的任务一样。然后，当你完成所有谜题后，你进入最后一个房间，任务是引导一个机器人穿过迷宫，你们必须一起合作。现在，你拥有的是在整个解谜过程中分配好的总时间。这就是你解决最后这个谜题所拥有的全部时间。如果你在机器人到达目的地之前没有解决，那么炸弹就会爆炸，你会被喷漆溅一身。这是地球上最酷的事情了。我以前从没听说过。

Before, but it's like, yeah, an escape room to your house series of escape rooms.

以前没有，但这就像是，是的，一系列密室逃脱到你家里。

Exactly, exactly. So yeah, that's what I would spend a thousand dollars on. Many, well.

没错，完全正确。所以，是的，这就是我会花一千美元做的事情。Manoush，嗯。

All right, I'm not sure how I follow that. But, um, I would say I'm a big believer in silence and slowing the mind down. So I would spend it on just doing a sound Bath or something like that and folks getting together and just talking through the real stuff that's on their minds. So that's, I think what I would spend. But in my mind, I actually thought you said100,000 dollars and, um, I would also have people fly everyone into some neat place and just having an artist that we love just perform that was. My succession kind of party. Yeah, yeah. Like the parties you see on thats thats.

好吧，我不确定该如何接这个话题。但是，嗯，我想说，我非常相信静默和让思维慢下来。所以我会把钱花在办个声音浴之类的活动上，让大家聚在一起，坦诚地谈谈他们心中的真实想法。所以，我想这就是我会花的钱。但在我心里，我其实以为你说的是10万美元，嗯，那我还会让大家飞到一个很棒的地方，请一位我们喜爱的艺术家来表演。那会是我《继承之战》风格的派对。没错，没错。就像你在剧里看到的那种派对。

The vision, that's. The vision I recently found out through a friend who had a birthday party this way that you can have a hibachi chef come to your house with the whole, like, hibachi grill, you know, like benny hanna, but at your house in your yard or something and they'll like they'll do all the tricks, you know, and crack the egg.

就是这个愿景。这就是愿景。我最近从一个这样办生日派对的的朋友那里得知，你可以请一位铁板烧厨师带着全套设备来你家，你知道，就像Benihana那样，但是在你的家里或院子里，他们会表演所有的技巧，你知道的，比如打鸡蛋。

In stuff with the side of the Turner and then spray the sake from a water gun into your mouth and all those things, and that's about a thousand dollars, I think so.

用锅铲边缘做各种事情，然后用水枪把清酒喷到你嘴里等等，这些大概要一千美元，我想是的。

That's okay. The more, you know, a fun group. It's possible. Lots of fun ideas. We just have to rotate at each other. I better, hello conceptualize these things and then not each experience them exactly.

这没问题。你知道，越多朋友，越好玩。这是有可能的。很多有趣的想法。我们只需要轮流体验。我最好...嗯...构思这些想法，然后不一定非得亲身经历每一个。

Exactly, okay. Well, we have working at ted in common. And the motto, of course, is ideas change everything. So let's start our conversation with an idea that you heard this year that you think about a lot and you think could change everything in the respective fields that your show covers. Shll why don't we have you go first?

完全正确，好的。那么，我们都在TED工作。当然，我们的座右铭是“Ideas change everything”（思想改变一切）。所以，让我们从今年你听到的一个想法开始我们的对话，这个想法你经常思考，并且你认为它可以改变你节目所覆盖的各个领域的一切。Sheryl，不如你先开始？

Yeah, you know what I will say it wasn't just like one particular person, but I think the recurring theme was about like infrastructure level technologies that are actually shaping the future of sustainability, you know, innovation not just for innovation's sake but to kind of apply these principles towards getting to green energy faster, semiconductor faster, like churning out this idea of nuclear really being an option and being able to do it at a smaller scale versus these like ten and twenty year projects. And so there was more of like how do we rethink the infrastructure that we already have and use the tools that we already have and now use these technologies as a route to advancing this work quicker, faster, more efficiently and and definitely cheaper what.

好的，你知道我要说的不是某一个特定的人，但我认为反复出现的主题是关于基础设施层面的技术，这些技术实际上正在塑造可持续性的未来，你知道，创新不仅仅是为了创新本身，而是应用这些原则来更快地实现绿色能源、更快的半导体，比如提出核能确实是一个选择并且能够以较小规模实施的观念，而不是那些需要十年、二十年的大型项目。所以，更多的是像我们如何重新思考我们已经拥有的基础设施，利用我们已经拥有的工具，现在将这些技术作为更快、更高效、当然也更便宜地推进这项工作的途径。

I was going to say actually builds on that. I think that the notion that growth is good and that all growth is good is something that we need to really step back and think more about. And, you know, we operate in this boom and bust cycle and it feels like we. Never learn from it. And so there's some type of reckoning where we need to recognize, like it's okay to grow slow.

我正要接着说，这实际上建立在此基础上。我认为“增长是好的，所有增长都是好的”这个观念，我们需要真正退一步，更多地思考一下。你知道，我们在这个繁荣与萧条的周期中运作，感觉我们。从未从中吸取教训。因此，我们需要某种程度的反思，认识到缓慢增长是可以的。

And I want us to think more about that.

我希望我们更多地思考这一点。

Yeah, and I actually thought the pandemic, when we were all locked down and had to take a beat and all of the wheels of capitalism, had to take a beat was a moment for that record. Yes?

是的，实际上我认为疫情时期，当我们都被封锁，不得不停下来，资本主义的所有齿轮都不得不暂停，那本应是一个反思的时刻。对吧？

Only, not we all just went.

只是，并非我们所有人都只是...

Back to work? Exactly.

回去工作了吗？正是如此。

The same model so how do we slow down in some ways?

同样的模式，那么我们如何在某些方面慢下来呢？

Yeah, I mean there was actually a very specific moment that I think a lot about. I got to interview ray kurzweil, the AI pioneer who came up with the term the singularity. This idea that humans and machines will merge into one, and he's in his late seventy s now and, and says, you know, he doesn't plan on dying, which OK. And he told me this crazy story about how he went out to lunch with the nobel prize winning economist Daniel kahneman and thinking fast.

是的，我是说，实际上有一个非常具体的时刻我经常想起。我采访了雷·库兹韦尔，这位提出了“奇点”概念的AI先驱。这个概念认为人类和机器将融合为一体，他现在已经快八十岁了，并且说，你知道，他不打算死，好吧。他给我讲了一个疯狂的故事，关于他和诺贝尔经济学奖得主丹尼尔·卡尼曼出去吃午饭的事，以及《思考，快与慢》。

And slogan.

和……口号。

Exactly. And kahneman was, you know, said I I have a plan. I'm, I'm going to take my life when I turn ninety I'm going to go to Switzerland and kurzweil said, you know, why would you do that? The Tech is moving so fast. This is don't do it. And he did. And ray kurzweil, you know is is.

正是。卡尼曼，你知道，他说我我有一个计划。我，我打算在九十岁的时候结束自己的生命，我要去瑞士。库兹韦尔说，你知道，你为什么要那样做？科技发展如此之快。别这么做。但他还是做了。而雷·库兹韦尔，你知道，他…

Really? I think he's still puzzled by that and flummox that people don't understand or don't. Believe that there's going to be such an acceleration in terms of finding medical treatments and different ways of extending our lives. And, and whether he's right or not, I don't know. But this idea of the two of them coming together and having this conversation over lunch and how upset ray was, like, it just really struck me. It's, it's two humans trying to figure out, you know, what do we do with our lifespan and, and with completely two different perspectives on it. And I just was really touched by the conversation.

真的吗？我想他仍然对此感到困惑和不解，人们不明白或者不。相信在寻找医疗方法和延长寿命的不同方式方面会有如此快速的加速。至于他是否正确，我不知道。但他们两人聚在一起，在午餐时进行这场对话，以及雷是多么的难过，这真的打动了我。这是两个人在试图弄清楚，你知道，我们该如何对待我们的寿命，而且对此有着完全不同的两种视角。这段对话真的让我很感动。

They say there are no bad ideas in brainstorming, but what is an idea that you all heard that you really want to challenge and push back on or want to reframe maybe that you saw on the ted stage or in your conversations.

人们说头脑风暴中没有坏主意，但你们听到过什么想法是你们真正想挑战、反驳或者可能想要重新构想的？也许是在TED舞台上看到的，或者是在你们的对话中听到的。

Yeah, so I'll this one, this one I found really problematic. There's an episode and around like seniors and robots and essentially like having robots be physical assistant, like a like a robot suit, be a physical assistant to an elder and the thinking was just because you get older doesn't mean that you have to stop participating in society. Like from a productivity standpoint that hey like you know even if you can't lift a box like wearing this robot suit will help you to like lift boxes. How far is too far? Like are we only innovating around this idea that the future of work is continuous work versus I think what the promises of our.

好的，那么我说这个，这个我觉得很有问题。有一期节目是关于老年人和机器人的，本质上是让机器人作为身体助手，比如像机器人套装，作为老人的身体助手。其想法是，仅仅因为你变老了并不意味着你必须停止参与社会。从生产力的角度来看，嘿，你知道，即使你搬不动一个箱子，穿上这个机器人套装就能帮你搬箱子。但到什么程度算是过分了？我们是否只是在围绕“未来工作是持续工作”这个理念进行创新，而我认为我们承诺的是…

Artificial intelligence is supposed to cut back on work, right so that we can do things that are much more human esque, whatever that looks like these days. And I think we get a lot of that on the ted stage of like here's this cool new innovative idea, but always like, we never really take a chance to sit back and say, is this necessary just because we can't do it. Yeah, theuppe.

人工智能应该是为了减少工作，对吧？这样我们就能做更有人性的事情，不管这在当今是什么样子。我认为我们在TED舞台上看到了很多这样的内容，比如“这是一个很酷的创新想法”，但总是这样，我们从来没有真正抓住机会坐下来问，仅仅因为我们能做到，这就必要吗？是的，Modupe。

I see you nodding, yeah.

我看到你点头了，是的。

I mean, I I I would say that I'm sure we're going to touch on I A ton. So I'm not going to even talk about that in this conversation right here. But there's this new York times article that came out towards the end of last year, beginning of this year, about how CEOs are tripping. And by that they meant they're using psychedelics more to help them in terms of ego depletion and come up with new creative ideas and help them get unstuck. And I kind of felt like there are other ways in going on expensive retreats to figure out how to address some of the.

我的意思是，我想说，我相信我们会大量谈到AI。所以我在这里甚至不打算谈这个。但是《纽约时报》在去年年底、今年年初发表了一篇文章，关于CEO们如何“磕药”（意指迷幻之旅）。他们的意思是，他们更多地使用迷幻药来帮助应对自我耗竭，产生新的创意想法，帮助他们走出困境。我有点觉得，除了参加昂贵的静修去寻找解决一些…的方法之外，还有其他方式。

Big challenges that we're dealing with in society and I'm actually very open to all types and forms of self knowledge and whatever it takes I'm okay with, but I do feel like we always go externally to kind of get clarity, but there's so much internally where we can go and so there was something about that that I just felt we needed more of.

我们在社会中面临的重大挑战，实际上我对所有类型和形式的自我认知都很开放，无论需要什么我都接受。但我确实觉得，我们总是向外寻求清晰，而内部有太多我们可以探索的东西。所以关于那一点，我觉得我们需要更多的反思。

Wait, so you're saying they were dropping acid? Is that what you're talking about? Oretam else isn't that? Isn't that an attempt to go more internally, though?

等等，所以你是说他们在吸食 LSD？你说的是这个吗？或者别的迷幻药？但这不也是一种试图更深入内心的尝试吗？

So, yes, I do think it's an attempt to go more internally, but I just feel like that as the panacea is not, it's not sustainable and it's not accessible to everybody. So I'm not saying that it's a terrible idea. I'm just saying that, you know.

所以，是的，我确实认为这是一种更深入内心的尝试，但我只是觉得，将其作为万能药并不具有可持续性，也不是每个人都能接触到的。所以我并不是说这是个糟糕的想法。我只是说，你知道。

I pushed back a little bit on it and sometimes I think we forget about ways that are really around us and leveraging the people around us to go internally or the community, your employees, your colleagues and all that. And I also think that, you know, our leaders are people that we look up to and respect and admire. And if there are also more accessible forms of going internally, then I want role models of that too.

我对此有点不同意见，有时候我觉得我们忘记了真正存在于我们身边的方法，以及利用我们周围的人、社区、你的员工、你的同事等等来向内探索。我也认为，你知道，我们的领导者是我们仰望、尊重和钦佩的人。如果还有更容易实现的向内探索的形式，那么我也希望看到那样的榜样。

Interesting.

有趣。

Min what I wanna push back on this year? Well, what made you raise an eyebrow?

Manoush，今年你想反驳什么？嗯，什么让你皱起了眉头？

Well, you know, so many things. Gosh, but I would say for me, I had this really great conversation with victor riparbelli. He owns an AI avatar company where they you can create a video with an extremely lifelike looking avatar who will, you know, give instructions to your entire employees about, you know, how to use a piece of equipment. But he posited that in the future every kid will have their own personal I tutor, avatar tutor. Yeah, maybe remember him and you know he was trying to push our buttons, right? So part of it was like reading and writing won't be necessary to just be conversations with these avatars. And I mean, no one I talk to actually thinks that's a great idea. And when I said that to him, he's like, I actually don't think that's a great idea either. He's like I'm just trying to provoke people to.

嗯，你知道，很多事情。天哪，但对我来说，我和 Victor Riparbelli 进行了一次非常棒的对话。他拥有一家AI化身公司，你可以用它创建一个极其逼真的化身视频，它会，你知道，给你所有员工下达指令，比如如何使用一件设备。但他假设，未来每个孩子都会有自己的个人AI导师，化身导师。是的，也许还记得他，你知道他是在试图刺激我们，对吧？所以其中一部分意思是，读写将变得不必要，只需要和这些化身对话就行。我是说，和我交谈的人没有一个真的认为这是个好主意。当我对他说了这一点时，他说，其实我也不认为这是个好主意。他说，我只是想激发人们去…

Really understand how much this I video thing is coming and like I this conversation was.

真正理解这种AI视频事物的发展程度，就像我这次对话…

You know, earlier in the year in2025 and here we are and look how fast things have moved every time somebody's like that's not going to happen. I feel like it does next week. Yeah, so, um, like I feel like I don't want us to keep not pushing back or thinking things are bad ideas because they are inevitable. That's the weird sort of tension that I keep. Like remember why you thought this was a bad idea, right? It isn't inevitable how we we use it and maybe they're tripping that much that that's how they're coming up with these ideas medupe I don't know, but like maybe all these things go hand in hand actually. So yeah, that was mine.

你知道，早在2025年初，现在我们已经到了这里，看看事情发展得多快。每次有人说“这不会发生”，我感觉下周它就发生了。是的，所以，嗯，我觉得我不希望我们仅仅因为某些事情是不可避免的，就不再反驳或认为它们是坏主意。这就是我一直感受到的那种奇怪的张力。就像记住你为什么认为这是个坏主意，对吧？我们如何使用它并非不可避免，也许他们吸了太多药，所以才想出这些主意，Modupe，我不知道，但也许所有这些事情实际上是相互关联的。所以，是的，这就是我的看法。

All right, what about surprises you all? Anything that you were particularly surprised about or changed your perspective that stands out now that we're looking back?

好的，那有什么让你们惊讶的事情吗？有什么让你们特别惊讶或改变了你们看法的事情，现在回想起来很突出？

Minus you want to take it first. Yeah, I'm.

Manoush 你想先说说吗？好的，我在。

Thinking about otters, not AI, but otters. I have the otters c and brackish otters, yes. Um, so the reason why I'm thinking about them is I had this wonderful conversation with a researcher in Singapore who studies ways that, you know, the otter population I had no idea is actually.

想着水獭，不是AI，是水獭。我查了水獭，还有咸水水獭，是的。嗯，我想到它们是因为我和新加坡的一位研究人员进行了一次精彩的对话，他研究的是，你知道，水獭的数量我原本不知道实际上…

Quite large in Singapore and otters get super territorial. So it's kind of like Gang warfare in certain places and they're, yeah, it gets dangerous. There's a lot of fighting. This is my section of the river, ET cetera. However, his whole thing was like, this is the future if there's going to be so many humans. We have to make space for our wildlife. We need to create cities where you can have this sort of integration of animal, human, animals and other wildlife animals and we need to be respectful of them. And to him there was a way that this actually was a great, maybe example of living in harmony that we could all take a note out of. And you know, I live in new York, so it's.

在新加坡相当庞大，而且水獭领地意识极强。所以在某些地方有点像帮派战争，是的，这变得很危险。有很多争斗。这是我的河段，等等。然而，他的整个观点是，如果未来有这么多人类，我们就必须为野生动物留出空间。我们需要创造这样的城市，在那里可以有这种动物、人类以及其他野生动物的融合，我们需要尊重它们。对他来说，这实际上是一个很棒的例子，也许是和谐共处的范例，我们都可以从中学习。你知道，我住在纽约，所以这里…

Rat city essentially every single day. But I just, I love this idea of people like enjoying them. What, you know, really observing the otters in their own habitat, which was also their habitat, you know, it was kind of cool.

基本上每天都是老鼠之城。但是，我就是喜欢人们享受它们的这个想法。你知道，真正在水獭自己的栖息地观察它们，这也是我们的栖息地，你知道，这很酷。

Yeah, I I never really think that much about otters. I know. Oh, it's. A fun one, what a lesson that yeah, teach. Us, I love otters. I like one of my favorite animals. So this is really fascinating. I'm gonna have to do a deep when they sleep.

是的，我我从来没怎么想过水獭。我知道。哦，这真是。一个有趣的话题，多么好的教训啊，是的，教育。我们，我喜欢水獭。它们是我最喜欢的动物之一。所以这真的很迷人。我得深入研究一下它们睡觉的时候。

Yeah, well, so like when they go to sleep, they like with their friend. They like lay on their backs and they hold each other so they don't drift away from each other. And so in high school, my best friend, this is totally irrelevant. But in high school, my best friend and I, we used to send photos of otters together. We just loved each other so much because it was like our favorite animal. Like this is us. We're like never going to leave.

是的，嗯，所以当它们睡觉时，喜欢和伙伴一起。它们喜欢仰面躺着，互相拉着手，这样就不会漂散。所以在高中时，我最好的朋友，这完全不相关。但在高中时，我和我最好的朋友，我们过去常常互发水獭依偎的照片。我们非常爱对方，因为水獭是我们最喜欢的动物。就像这就是我们。我们永远不会分开。

Anyway, OK. So interesting things that I feel like really surprised me this year is there's such a tremendous emphasis on sustainable cement. And I don't know how often you all think about cement, but I never think about cement. But it's, it truly is like a high emitting, like toxic contributor to greenhouse gas emissions. And there's like a major companies that are reworking the material development of cement to make it much more sustainable and then also a lot cheaper.

总之，好吧。那么我觉得今年真正让我惊讶的有趣事情是，人们对可持续水泥的重视程度如此之高。我不知道你们多久会想到水泥，但我从来不想水泥。但它确实是温室气体排放的一个高排放、有毒的贡献者。有一些大公司正在重新研究水泥的材料开发，使其更加可持续，同时也便宜得多。

And considering it's like one of the most consumed materials on earth in there, they contribute so much to carbon pollution at whole. Innovation in this space can drastically like cut down on global emissions if we do this in a sustainable way. So that was super surprising, I think, to, to be able to kind of listen into this talk and then to also have external conversations with companies that are like the world's largest in terms of supplying commercial industries with this material that no one thinks about, especially if you're not in that industry at all. Yeah.

考虑到它是地球上消耗最多的材料之一，它们对整个碳排放贡献巨大。如果我们以可持续的方式来做，这个领域的创新可以大幅削减全球排放。所以我觉得这非常令人惊讶，能够听到这样的演讲，并且与世界上最大的、向商业行业供应这种材料的公司进行外部对话，而这种材料没人会想到，特别是如果你根本不在那个行业的话。是的。

Madub, what about you so?

Modupe，那你呢？

There was a speaker, soyio looit, who founded mesa, which is a FinTech company in Africa that started in Kenya and I teach a course on, you know, new business opportunities in east Africa and in Rwanda. And I just loved how his idea of starting this company just came out of him saying, okay, what can I do differently? What is a problem that we're trying to solve? Who is really not getting access to certain opportunities or to certain markets? And it was founded that way and you know, you can pause and say well is that really surprising? But to me, anything and any idea that starts with, ah, who can I help and what can I fix is really surprising because it didn't exist before. And so that one really brought me Joy, especially seeing farmers using it in Rwanda or people who again had little access to financial institutions.

有一位演讲者，Soyio Looit，他创立了 M-Pesa，这是一家非洲的金融科技公司，始于肯尼亚。我教授一门关于东非和卢旺达新商业机会的课程。我非常喜欢他创立这家公司的想法，就是源于他说：好吧，我能做点什么不同的事？我们要解决什么问题？是谁真的无法获得某些机会或进入某些市场？公司就是这样成立的。你知道，你可以停下来问，这真的很令人惊讶吗？但对我来说，任何以“啊，我能帮助谁，我能解决什么”为出发点的想法都真的很令人惊讶，因为它以前并不存在。所以这个想法真的给我带来了快乐，尤其是看到卢旺达的农民在使用它，或者那些再次难以接触到金融机构的人在使用它。

Just being all about this new technology.

全都关于这项新技术。

Yeah, that was a great conversation on stage in april at the ted conference in vancouver. I keep thinking back to.

是的，那是四月份在温哥华TED大会舞台上的一次精彩对话。我一直回想起。

The tiktok guy who makes chocolate like really intricate chocolate.

那个 TikTok 上的人，他制作巧克力，非常复杂的巧克力。

Creation? Chocolate guy. Yeah, the.

创作？巧克力 guy。是的，那个。

Chocolate guy is one that really surprised me. I just think there's something so relentlessly human about doing these sorts of things. Like we've been trying to get rid of things on Facebook marketplace and my partner is writing these like hilarious.

巧克力 guy 真的让我很惊讶。我只是觉得做这些事情有一种不屈不挠的人性精神。比如我们一直在 Facebook Marketplace 上处理东西，我的伴侣写的描述非常搞笑。

Captions to sell the items and it's like AI would never do that. You know? It's just like I'm having fun for the sake of not commerce. But just because I like creative, is it working? Yeah, some people have written just to say, hey, I'm not buying this, but I really love the copyright.

物品的说明文字，这就像是AI永远不会做的事。你知道吗？这就像我为了乐趣而不是商业在做这件事。只是因为我喜欢有创意，有用吗？是的，有些人留言只是说，嘿，我不买这个，但我真的很喜欢这个文案。

I love.

我喜欢。

It I mean that I'm gonna have to speaks to shl talking about playing. We need to play more and have fun more. And if it's chocolate clocks that does it for you, then make clocks, you know.

我是说，这正好呼应了Sheryl关于玩耍的谈论。我们需要更多地玩耍，更多地享受乐趣。如果巧克力钟表能让你快乐，那就去做钟表，你知道。

I think we have to kind of insist on being human, yeah, so much as being digitized, yeah? Or. Thinking of, yeah, I love that.

我想我们必须坚持保持人性，是的，尽管被数字化了，对吧？或者。想到，是的，我喜欢这个。

All right. What's an important idea that you heard from your industry or just on the stage in your conversations that you wish would have received more attention? So something that's sort of under reported or under talked about?

好的。你从你的行业或者仅仅是在舞台上的对话中听到的什么重要想法，你希望它能得到更多关注？也就是说，有些报道不足或讨论不足的事情？

I can go with that one I've been thinking about this a lot and I'm S I I feel like A I A I sh may I right but I'm gonna say it anyway because I went to ah a talk where the the audience was very upset about AI because of the carbon footprint that it has. Sure true, sure. However, I think we haven't done a very good job in explaining that AI encompasses many, many, many different things not just chat G P T or a clot or large large language models and one of the conversations I just had was with Sarah bei. She's an MIT conservationist and environmental AI researcher and her point is yeah, but we don't have to use those massive AI models that take up all that energy. There are ways of using very small discrete datasets that give you a ton of information. So for example I naturalists the APP where people upload, you know photos, there are scientists who are using that and this.

我来说这个吧，我一直在思考这个问题，我感觉…AI，AI，Sheryl，可以吗？但我还是要说，因为我参加了一个演讲，观众对AI非常不满，因为它的碳足迹。确实如此，当然。然而，我认为我们在解释AI包含很多很多很多不同东西方面做得并不好，不仅仅是ChatGPT或Claude或大型语言模型。我刚刚进行的一次对话是与Sarah Bei进行的。她是MIT的保护主义者和环境AI研究员，她的观点是，是的，但我们不一定非要使用那些消耗大量能源的巨大AI模型。有很多方法可以使用非常小的离散数据集，来获得大量信息。例如，iNaturalist这个应用程序，人们上传，你知道，照片，有科学家正在使用这个，并且…

Covering all kinds of crazy things that are like you wouldn't be looking for in your picture of a blue Jay. But behind them, blue Jay is a leaf and that explains a lot about what time of year it is and why that blue Jay has that kind of plumage at that point. And her point was, I don't need a huge AI to do that. I can take these smaller sets, they don't use as much power, they have oversized benefits. And when we say AI, that doesn't mean everything. So that's where I feel like we need to be more specific.

涵盖了各种疯狂的东西，比如你不会在你拍的蓝鸦照片中寻找的东西。但在蓝鸦后面，有一片叶子，这能说明很多关于一年中的什么时间，以及为什么那只蓝鸦在那个时间点有那种羽毛。她的观点是，我不需要一个庞大的AI来做这个。我可以使用这些较小的数据集，它们不需要那么多电力，却具有超大的效益。当我们说AI时，并不意味着一切。所以我觉得我们需要更具体。

I'll jump in here. Yes, yes to all those things. I really enjoyed that talk as well and it's got me thinking very differently. So one of the things that I will say both worries me and I feel like we need to have stronger conversations is the actual relationships to AI and like how do we handle grief and create these tools for ourselves to emote with that are now serving as a therapist or like almost a partner, right? There's this kind of blurred line between how we are sharing so much of ourselves with these particular either devices or apps, right? And like we're way too intimate, we're having way too many intimate relationships when we need to like really be teetering back towards relationships with other human beings. And so I feel like we could have had more exploration there and maybe that's something we look at next year of like how are we engaging and then also what are some of the regulations and ethics around.

我在这里插一句。是的，完全同意所有这些。我也非常喜欢那个演讲，它让我有了不同的思考。所以我要说，其中既让我担忧又觉得我们需要进行更深入探讨的一点是，与AI的实际关系，比如我们如何处理悲伤，并为我们自己创造这些情感表达工具，这些工具现在充当着治疗师或几乎像伴侣的角色，对吧？我们与这些特定的设备或应用程序分享太多自己，这之间有一种模糊的界限，对吧？而且我们太过亲密，建立了太多亲密关系，而我们真正需要的是回归到与人类的关系。所以我觉得我们本可以在那里进行更多探索，也许这是我们明年要关注的事情，比如我们如何互动，以及围绕这些的一些法规和伦理问题。

And you know, well, what happens if someone is looking to harm themselves? What happens if some kind of nefarious information is, is put into some of these these tools and how do we mitigate that? Or how do we at least route people towards human in person interaction? And then how do we also redefine our relationship with relying heavily on these tools to solve truly what requires human connection? And so, yeah, that to me, I think is a large conversation that we need to have more.

还有，你知道，嗯，如果有人想要伤害自己怎么办？如果一些恶意信息被输入到这些工具中怎么办？我们如何减轻这种风险？或者我们至少如何引导人们进行线下的人际互动？然后，我们又如何重新定义我们与这些工具的关系，我们如此依赖它们去解决真正需要人类连接的问题？所以，是的，对我来说，我认为这是一个我们需要更多讨论的重大话题。

Of. I mean, to that point of what tools or what requires human connection, you made me think about how we think about hiring and recruiting people.

说到。我的意思是，关于哪些工具或什么需要人类连接，你让我想到了我们如何看待招聘和招募人员。

One thing that has been really disappointing that I've heard from folks who are like looking for jobs or looking to transfer within their organizations is the sheer number of interviews that they're having. There are people who are having ten to twenty interviews because now we can do it online and then still not even getting the job and then not even getting information saying that they didn't get the job. They just have to assume you get ghosted if you get ghosted. This is insane.

我听到那些正在找工作或想在组织内部调动的人说的一件事非常令人失望，那就是他们面试的次数太多了。有些人要面试十到二十次，因为现在我们可以在线进行，然后仍然没有得到工作，甚至没有得到任何通知说他们没有获得工作。他们只能假设自己被“已读不回”。这太疯狂了。

This is insane. And it's problematic because I do think it also introduces more bias because the more people you see, the more, you know, certain biases might be augmented depending on your background, depending on so many different features or factors. I mean, I think that the point is for our digital systems to become efficient enough that they're not weeding out in a way that replicates inequality or they're able to really understand and attend to who would be a good fit and why and whatever. So I think we need to pay more attention to that and how we still haven't figured out how to be equitable in our ways of recruiting and retaining people. On the flip side of that, I was talking to a friend who works at a consulting company and he said that they've been really good about how they do their interviews. Usually they used to just, you know, see a bunch of people and then each interviewer would like rank order.

这太疯狂了。而且这是个问题，因为我确实认为这也引入了更多偏见，因为你看到的人越多，你知道，某些偏见可能会因为你的背景、因为许多不同的特征或因素而增强。我的意思是，我认为关键在于让我们的数字系统变得足够高效，使其不会以一种复制不平等的方式筛选掉人，或者能够真正理解并关注谁会是合适的人选以及为什么。所以我认为我们需要更多关注这一点，以及我们仍未弄清楚如何在招聘和留住人才方面做到公平。另一方面，我和一位在咨询公司工作的朋友聊天，他说他们在面试方面做得非常好。通常他们过去只是，你知道，面试一群人，然后每个面试官会进行排名。

The person and then, you know, make a decision, but they don't rank order anymore. They kind of put people in buckets of ABC and d type of thing. So whereas before you might have been a one, two or three, if you're in the a bucket, it kind of makes it easier for people not to be biased because they're not saying is it right for me to select a three over a two.

这个人，然后，你知道，做出决定，但他们现在不再排名了。他们有点像把人分成A、B、C、D几类。所以，以前你可能是一、二或三名，如果你在A类里，这会让人们不容易产生偏见，因为他们不会说选择三号而不是二号对我是否合适。

But instead of saying no, these are all a and we can pick out of these as and when you do it that way, it actually leads to less bias in the decision making process. So I wish some of the tools that companies are using to ensure that they are promoting equity get more attention. And I think in certain domains, that's where we need to use our AI and our humans. If the AI isn't doing it right, then we need to work with humans to perfect what the AI is missing.

但取而代之的是说，不，这些都是A类，我们可以从这些A类中挑选。当你这样做时，实际上会减少决策过程中的偏见。所以我希望公司用来确保他们促进公平的一些工具能得到更多关注。我认为在某些领域，这正是我们需要使用AI和人类的地方。如果AI做得不对，那么我们需要与人类合作来完善AI所缺失的部分。

Well, we're going to take a quick break and we'll look ahead to next year and some of the questions or open questions that you have and that you all are thinking about, we'll be right back.

好的，我们稍作休息，然后展望明年，谈谈你们提出的一些问题或开放性问题，以及你们都在思考的事情，我们马上回来。

Let's jump in to2026 what are some of the questions and hopes that you have for the coming year, Sheryl? Do you want to go first?

让我们进入2026年，你对即将到来的一年有哪些问题和希望，Sheryl？你想先说说吗？

Yeah, I'm, I think it's going to be a really big year for and I know I keep going back to this conversation on sustainability. I just find that we have so many advanced tools and I'm really hopeful for I think everyone who's taken the ted stage in this space to talk about precision, sustainability. And so this idea that like we're going to increasingly use tools like AI to really target and optimize our environmental interventions. Um, it kind of takes me back to one conversation around like lowering the earth's temperature and I believe that was Daniel zola who talked about that, like we kind of have the tools to be able to reduce methane and like it doesn't actually have to take years for us to do so. Yeah, I'm also like I think the bigger questions I have for next year is really around some of the like ethical undercurrent components of this as AI continues to get woven into our infrastructure as a whole, I think data ownership.

好的，我认为这将是非常重要的一年，我知道我一直在回到关于可持续性的对话。我只是发现我们拥有如此多先进的工具，我对所有在这个领域登上TED舞台谈论精准可持续发展的人都充满希望。所以这个想法是，我们将越来越多地使用像AI这样的工具来真正瞄准和优化我们的环境干预措施。嗯，这让我回想起一次关于降低地球温度的对话，我记得是Daniel Zolli谈到了这个，他说我们确实有工具能够减少甲烷排放，而且实际上并不需要花费很多年才能做到。是的，我还觉得，我对明年更大的问题实际上是围绕其中的一些伦理潜流，因为AI继续被编织到我们的整个基础设施中，我认为数据所有权…

Is a big conversation that has been a key topic. And I think we've had lots of AI data ethicists on the stage. But I think we're going to have to really, really make some definitive decisions around like who owns the data, who's going to benefit from the efficiencies? How do we ensure that these technologies are actually going to serve communities, not just corporations, right? And so I think that like maybe2026 can be this year where we start to balance more of the innovation side with integrity, but also like when these companies have so much fricking money and all these companies are emerging and there's like these global superpowers, how do we create those checks and balances?

是一个重大的对话，一直是个关键话题。我认为舞台上已经有很多AI数据伦理学家。但我想我们将不得不做出一些非常明确的决定，比如谁拥有数据，谁将从效率提升中受益？我们如何确保这些技术真正服务于社区，而不仅仅是公司，对吧？所以我想，也许2026年可以是这一年，我们开始更多地平衡创新与诚信，但同时，当这些公司拥有这么多该死的钱，所有这些公司都在崛起，还有这些全球超级力量时，我们如何建立那些制衡机制？

Yeah, because previously that would be the role of governments. And while there are still governments that are looking out for that, more and more we're seeing in different parts of the world and in the west, you know, corporations, big business industry and governments going hand in hand, right, like when not policing the other.

是的，因为以前这是政府的角色。虽然仍然有政府在关注这一点，但我们在世界不同地区和西方越来越多地看到，公司、大企业行业和政府携手并进，对吧，就像当一方不监管另一方时。

Mine is a little bit of a follow up on that. So we just did an episode about this idea of restoring trust in government by being really boring and making things just work, like being able to renew your driver's license or yeah, I don't know if you've had to renew your passport recently. It's dreamy. It's the weirdest thing. Yes, so this can happen. So I just had a great conversation with jen pa. She was the the founder of code for America. And her whole thing is, you know, yes, there's government dysfunction and shutdowns are in the news and layoffs, federal layoffs. But in the United States, there's a movement back to the states where AI actually is like, this is the best.

我的看法跟这个有点关联。我们刚刚做了一期节目，关于通过非常“无聊”地让事情正常运转来恢复对政府的信任，比如能够更新你的驾驶执照，或者，是的，我不知道你最近是否需要更新护照。过程太顺利了。这是最奇怪的事情。是的，所以这是可以发生的。我刚刚和Jen Pa进行了一次很棒的对话。她是Code for America的创始人。她的全部观点是，是的，政府存在功能失调，停摆和裁员、联邦裁员都是新闻。但在美国，有一种回归各州的趋势，在那里，AI实际上就像是，这是最好的。

Use case example possible. The boring grunt work that we don't have enough people to do, that nobody wants to do is like filling out forms. Let's actually get people their benefits instead of making them fill out ten different, twenty different forms. So my hope I'm staying optimistic on this one is that AI gets applied efficiently and cuts down on red tape and that the states take back some of the power of just making our lives run more smoothly.

可能的用例示例。那些我们人手不足、没人想做的枯燥繁琐工作，比如填写表格。让我们真正让人们获得他们的福利，而不是让他们填写十种、二十种不同的表格。所以我的希望——我对此保持乐观——是AI能得到高效应用，减少繁文缛节，并且各州能收回一些权力，让我们的生活运行得更顺畅。

I like your here to that.

我喜欢你这个说法。

Look at those lofty goals. I love it. I love it. You know, from my vantage point, we have so much more, but people are so unhappy. So unhappy. In every industry, people are unhappy. And so my hope is that organizations will work harder on trying to have those types of leaders that inspire you and think about the whole person and how to really help people operate in their purpose in a way that will make people feel like they're making a difference and that their work matters and that they're cared for and cared about. And so, yeah, I mean, it's, it's contingent on.

看看这些崇高的目标。我爱它。我爱它。你知道，从我的角度来看，我们拥有了更多，但人们却如此不快乐。非常不快乐。在每个行业，人们都不快乐。所以我的希望是，组织将更加努力地尝试培养那种能激励你、考虑整个人、并真正帮助人们在其目标中工作的领导者，这种方式会让人们感到自己在产生影响、他们的工作很重要、他们被关心和被在意。所以，是的，我的意思是，这取决于…

Humans to be able to relate to others in a way that makes them feel all the Joy that there is to experience in this beautiful life. And instead we're not having that. And so I just, I feel like what's the point of leadership? If you're not able to help somebody feel better about themselves, feel better about their work, feel better about the difference they're making in the world? So that's my hope. Are you?

人类能够以某种方式与他人建立联系，让他们感受到在这个美丽人生中所有可以体验到的快乐。然而我们并没有做到。所以我就想，领导力还有什么意义？如果你不能帮助某人自我感觉更好、对工作感觉更好、对他们为世界带来的改变感觉更好？这就是我的希望。你呢？

Talking to people and like CEOs and telling them like, come on, get it together.

跟人们、比如CEO们谈谈，告诉他们，拜托，振作起来。

Um, to the extent that I can, that's one of one of the things I do. But I don't also want to just wait on. The CEOs. Leadership can come from anywhere. And so I'm trying to instill my students with that knowledge so that they can also help those ahead of them who are more senior to them, embody some of that philosophy because the young folks are getting it. They get it so much more right now. They're like, I'm not happy, I'm leaving, I'm not happy. I'm going to do self care. So we need to learn from them and listen to them a lot more because I think that's where some of the challenges will be solved.

嗯，尽我所能，这是我做的事情之一。但我也并不只想等待。CEO们。领导力可以来自任何地方。所以我正试图向我的学生灌输这种观念，这样他们也能帮助那些比他们资深的前辈，体现一些这样的哲学，因为年轻一代已经明白了。他们现在理解得更多。他们会说，我不快乐，我要离开，我不快乐。我要去做自我关爱。所以我们需要向他们学习，更多地倾听他们，因为我认为一些挑战的解决方案就在那里。

Yeah, OK. Next question. What would you like to see people thinking about or solving? Are there problems that you think, well, are there problems? Yes, let me just answer that for you, yes. But which problems do you think really need solving and that our ted community or the wider, you know, scientific and innovative community should be looking closer at?

是的，好的。下一个问题。你希望看到人们思考或解决什么问题？有没有你认为的…问题？是的，让我直接替你回答，是的。但你认为哪些问题真正需要解决，我们的TED社区或更广泛的科学和创新界应该更仔细地审视？

You know, I I I will just talk about some of the big ones. Oh yeah, the wealth gap, income inequality, people are still homeless. There are still people who are food insecure. And I was so inspired by so many different talks. For instance, I think it was slutty vegan and how pinky created slutty vegan because she actually really wanted to give opportunities for people to get access to food or something like that. So we need creative, innovative solutions that help us with reducing the wealth gap with, you know, educating kids at a young age. There's a Nonprofit, for instance, that gives seniors.

你知道，我就谈谈一些大的问题。哦，是的，贫富差距，收入不平等，人们仍然无家可归。仍然有人粮食不安全。我被很多不同的演讲深深鼓舞。例如，我记得是Slutty Vegan，以及Pinky如何创立了Slutty Vegan，因为她真的想为人们提供获得食物的机会。所以我们需要创造性的、创新的解决方案来帮助我们减少贫富差距，比如从小教育孩子。举个例子，有一个非营利组织，给老年人…

A thousand dollars to learn how to invest that money. And then once they're in college, they get that money and they see how it's appreciated in value. We can't change the wealth gap if we don't educate people on what wealth is and what it isn't and how to accumulate it. And so I'm hoping that many of these organizations that have a lot of wealth will use some of it towards educating others around wealth and helping them to be more financially viable humans.

一千美元来学习如何投资这笔钱。然后一旦他们上了大学，他们就能拿到那笔钱，并看到它是如何增值的。如果我们不教育人们什么是财富、什么不是财富以及如何积累财富，我们就无法改变贫富差距。所以我希望许多这些拥有大量财富的组织，能将其中的一部分用于教育他人关于财富的知识，帮助他们成为更有财务生存能力的人。

Um, I love this because it kind of touches on this idea of the future of work and opportunity and how we solve problems in particularly around infrastructure on a global scale, not just here in the states we need building but also I think an upgrade. And so one of the shows that I got a chance to do this past year covered Jason Huang's talk where he talked about unlocking clean energy and just that we're still using, you know, a century year old technology in terms of our grid. And so we're not even delivering the energy that we currently have as efficiently as we could, right. And so we could be advancing these tools to deliver energy and power much more efficiently, especially as we're looking at now, like energy costs have gone through the roof for millions of Americans. I think what was the latest data was like30% higher, particularly as a result of these new data centers and what have you, I even.

嗯，我喜欢这个，因为它触及了未来工作和机会的理念，以及我们如何解决问题，特别是在全球范围内的基础设施方面，不仅仅是美国这里我们需要建设，我认为还需要升级。所以过去一年我有机会做的一期节目涵盖了Jason Huang的演讲，他谈到了释放清洁能源，以及我们的电网仍在使用有百年历史的技术。所以我们甚至没有尽可能高效地输送我们现有的能源，对吧。因此我们可以推进这些工具，以更高效率输送能源和电力，特别是考虑到现在，数以百万计美国人的能源成本已经飙升。我记得最新的数据好像是上涨了30%，尤其是由于这些新数据中心等等，我甚至…

Talked about in an episode. I have a home in Atlanta and for like months the power would go out for like a few hours every single day. It was the most annoying thing, but it was like in the entire neighborhood and part of that was there was just an influx of people moving into the city, moving into the neighborhood and the power grid was not set up for the amount of people coming into the city, right? And the reality is like the current infrastructure is just not set up. And so I think that we have the opportunity here to solve for many different challenges, putting people back to work, getting people skilled and upk skilled, you know, reducing people's energy bills and then also creating a true twenty first century model of power and energy as well as storage right for those pieces that we could potentially get from renewables. Then I think that we can really see tremendous challenges solved at least in urban environments.

在一期节目里谈到过。我在亚特兰大有套房子，有好几个月，每天都会停电几个小时。这是最烦人的事情，而且整个社区都是这样，部分原因只是因为有大量人口涌入城市、涌入这个社区，而电网并没有为涌入城市的人口数量做好准备，对吧？现实是当前的基础设施根本没有准备好。所以我认为我们有机会在这里解决许多不同的挑战，让人们重返工作岗位，让人们获得技能和提升技能，你知道，减少人们的能源账单，然后也创造一个真正的二十一世纪电力和能源以及储存模式，为那些我们可能从可再生能源中获得的部分。那么我想我们真的可以看到巨大的挑战得到解决，至少在城市环境中。

I'm going in a different direction. I'm going with, I think, taking a page out of Mark marin's book. So our fellow podcaster, host of ah wtf, I think his show is on for sixteen years. Sorry, right? Was it sixteen? And he just was like, I think I'm